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Strength Training for Golf with Coach Kevin Duffy

Brett Scott  00:01
Alright guys, welcome back. Today we’re going to talk about golf. So with me here today I have coach Kevin Duffy. He is a TPI, one two and three, strength coach. So for those golfers you guys should know what that means. That means he’s a pretty knowledgeable strength coach in the world of golf for sure. He is the owner of rotational power and strength in Acton, Massachusetts. He’s rated a top 50, golf professional fitness professional, from Golf Digest, and has also spoken at a PGA conference in Florida before, he has 11 years of the coaching experience just like me. And for some reason, he’s known for kicking down doors, which I don’t know much about, but I’ve seen it as a trend on your social media there. So you can you can tell me about that later. I guess we’ll leave the history there. But I’m bringing Kevin on here today to talk about golf and a lot of the things that I see as a PT as a coach, but I am by no means a golfer at all, I’ve been golfing, but I don’t know much about it. And I’ve actually had quite a few patients that we can take care of from a physical therapy standpoint. But there’s a lot my golfers teach me about the sport of golf. So who better to bring on than a golf in fitness professional to put those pieces together for me. So Kevin, thanks for coming on. And, and one of the big things we were just talking about beforehand, and something you you spoke about at that PGA conference was the training window of and we see this all the time with athletes of any sport, but I think Golf is a big one, especially for the age population demographic that plays golf. So, you know, we get a lot of older people that will do some training in the winter, or in their offices, but once golf season comes around, it’s like, Yep, we’re not gonna We’re getting out of the training room for the whole season. What do you have to say about that? And why is that a problem?

02:06
Well, so I, you mentioned off Mike earlier that you were a hockey player. So it’s a similar concept that you would see in any other major sport, it’s just looked at a little bit differently because it’s a recreational sport, offers looked at a little bit more recreational. And for some people, it totally is. Some people play twice a year, some people play twice a day, so you have all different levels of golfers. However, the concepts that would apply at any major sport would apply to golf, because it is a major sport, it is played at the highest levels, and you could play it competitively or not competitively. But if you want to take a competitive edge training is the easiest way to do that, especially when most of your peers in the golf world aren’t doing it, it would be the easiest way to get a step up. Similar to like, if for some reason you had one hockey team, not train, for any strength conditioning, or any conditioning off ice, and then one team just to hockey, they probably still do pretty well. But more times than not the team that is trained and conditioned better than the other will win. So it’s a concept that’s a little bit lost on golfers, for some reason, but not on any other sport. So for me carving out a niche there and trying to get people that advantages is where kind of making making my living right now. And it’s it’s a fun place to be that comes with some nice perks and playing some really nice golf courses. So you know, you’re over there near Vesper. So, use some of those perks and some client privilege is to get out on that golf course.

Brett Scott  03:39
I’ll do my best. I’ll add to that to what you’re saying about the two hockey teams is I don’t think it’s just the physicality of being stronger and faster from weight training is going to make the hockey team better. I think a big part of that, that parallels both sports to is the longevity and sustainability throughout a season. Right. So maybe we see some some injuries right up front and golf. It’s like, Oh, I haven’t rotated all year and now my low back hurts. But if you’re playing a couple times a week, couple of times a day sometimes are 18 holes, 32 holes, whatever. Same in hockey, like later in the season, guys get more and more banged up, the body starts breaking down more and more. And that’s where we see some of the interesting pieces of like playoff hockey is Oh, this guy’s out. That guy’s out. Everyone’s breaking down now, where we see guys that are in better shape, have more mass, have more resiliency have more motor options and movement options. Just they fare much, much better than someone that hasn’t done any of those things. So yeah. That’s it talk about here so so why is it important for golfers to train through the year?

04:56
Okay, yeah, the the inseason training is is something I’ve been pushing more over the last probably three years. As a young coach, I used to not push it as hard. And I used to just talk on the fact that hey, I should have seen you in the offseason. Now, as I grew older and wiser, I’m like, Just fix the people that you have in front of you be happy that they came in be happy that they were willing to change and fix their their current issue. Rather than try to lecture the past. It’s useless. So inseason, my goal is to make you more robust, or as I tell my clients just don’t get weaker. I don’t want to make a t shirt because it’s not really sexy, saying but but I try to think of what is going to stick with my people. And the idea and their whole goal all golf season is don’t get weaker. Because the sentence that frustrates me the most is, hey, Duff, I was doing so awesome. At the beginning of year, my totals were up, I was hitting it further, I had a shorter club into this hole that I never have, it’s so much easier to score this way X, Y, and Z. And then I don’t know what happened. But at the end of the year, I didn’t have the same thing. And they’ll give themselves a cop out, maybe it was a, you know, their equipments old, or they’ll say the weather changed, and I’m like, No, man, you got weaker, it’s, you were rotating very fast, your clubhead speed was very high. And it was easier to make that move that you wanted to make. Whereas you went eight to 12, you know, sometimes longer sometimes, you know, three months at a time without touching away, or, or training or stretching, whereas you used to, and your body is responding negatively. I’m not surprised. But now instead of me just giving them that lecture, I’m like, Alright, man, let’s get back to work. You know? Or, or, you know, my female golfers honestly, understand it and do it more often than my male golfers. So in the training industry, you know, obviously everybody thinks about training more male athletes because it’s like more male dominated sport, our my female golfers Hey, listen better, and they get awesome results. And they don’t stop training, which I’m very happy about. So my my lady golfers are for some of my some of my favorite clients right about now.

04:56
Okay, yeah, the the inseason training is is something I’ve been pushing more over the last probably three years. As a young coach, I used to not push it as hard. And I used to just talk on the fact that hey, I should have seen you in the offseason. Now, as I grew older and wiser, I’m like, Just fix the people that you have in front of you be happy that they came in be happy that they were willing to change and fix their their current issue. Rather than try to lecture the past. It’s useless. So inseason, my goal is to make you more robust, or as I tell my clients just don’t get weaker. I don’t want to make a t shirt because it’s not really sexy, saying but but I try to think of what is going to stick with my people. And the idea and their whole goal all golf season is don’t get weaker. Because the sentence that frustrates me the most is, hey, Duff, I was doing so awesome. At the beginning of year, my totals were up, I was hitting it further, I had a shorter club into this hole that I never have, it’s so much easier to score this way X, Y, and Z. And then I don’t know what happened. But at the end of the year, I didn’t have the same thing. And they’ll give themselves a cop out, maybe it was a, you know, their equipments old, or they’ll say the weather changed, and I’m like, No, man, you got weaker, it’s, you were rotating very fast, your clubhead speed was very high. And it was easier to make that move that you wanted to make. Whereas you went eight to 12, you know, sometimes longer sometimes, you know, three months at a time without touching away, or, or training or stretching, whereas you used to, and your body is responding negatively. I’m not surprised. But now instead of me just giving them that lecture, I’m like, Alright, man, let’s get back to work. You know? Or, or, you know, my female golfers honestly, understand it and do it more often than my male golfers. So in the training industry, you know, obviously everybody thinks about training more male athletes because it’s like more male dominated sport, our my female golfers Hey, listen better, and they get awesome results. And they don’t stop training, which I’m very happy about. So my my lady golfers are for some of my some of my favorite clients right about now.

07:42
we have to say ego, but that’s right.

Brett Scott  07:44
Yeah, same same experience over here. And so there’s a really good kind of analogy used about the car with the brakes and everything you said before, so I think that’s something good. So you can speak on that behalf of what was it?

 

08:02
Yeah, so the that it’s, it’s an easy analogy. But you know, sometimes, like for the nutrition one, it’s super easy for people to understand, like, Hey, if you’re gonna go on a long road trip, do I want to have a full tank of gas before I go? Do I want to have premium fuel in there? Or do I want to have, you know, putting along with a low amount of fuel, so everyone’s like, Oh, of course, I want to have food on a fuel. There you go. Okay. So that’s an easy analogy. When you get into the car more specifics, when you talk about the training way that I want to approach it, is that I want to build up the chassis. First, I want to load on the brakes. And I want to worry about making sure everything’s stable, sturdy, you know, all four tires, or even not one side stronger than the other before I worry about installing a brand new engine, because if I put a brand new engine inside of a golf cart, and still have those tiny golf cart breaks, I’m just going to be the guy slamming into the wall. And so that analogy kind of hits home with people to understand that when you’re trying to prevent injuries, what’s the best way to go about it and it’s building up the brakes. So you’re anti rotation drills, building up the chassis making sure that you’re you’re able to handle the new club head speed that you have before I worry about clubhead speed drills that are sexy and cool and see everybody doing you know there are people are doing 180 box jumps in my gym but they have done farmers walks in hex bar deadlifts or months before that happens. So we do the sexy cool stuff. But the slogan is do the simple things savagely well for uncommon results. And I try to live by that because the results are are there and nobody comes to me for that quick fast turnaround in two three weeks because it’s not realistic. So there are people out there who have done the work ahead of time that I could really help him to three weeks but most of my clients In total do not fit that bill.

Brett Scott  10:03
So you’re saying it’s a bad idea to wait till three weeks before a golf season starts to come see you and be like, Hey, I gotta get in shape.

10:10
Yes, it is, it is a bad idea. However, if you do that, you’re probably just gonna peek at a different time than you want to. So in New England, like for like, younger coach, younger coach cab would be like, You’re such an idiot. Don’t do that current coach, like, Alright, man, I wish you didn’t do that. But here, here’s the plan. Here’s how we can fix this. And you’re probably gonna, like be a little bit annoyed in the beginning of this spring season. But luckily, in New England, our peak golf and peak tournament, and like, especially like, if my better players are playing in like, my college players, or their golf is a fall season for them. And then late summer, they’re all playing in the bass golf tournaments or amateur tournaments. So that’s kind of like that late summer, early fall block. So the peaking block is a little bit different for them versus you know, some some guys or girls might want to be peaking for like, hey, all all offseason, I did nothing. And then I’m about to go take a trip to Myrtle Beach and play eight rounds in a row on like, oh, shit, hold on to your hold on, man. Let’s just, let’s Yeah, all right, here’s your here’s your rehab drills, here’s your stretches that you’re going to need. And here’s a lot of farm walk, here’s a lot of deadlift. And let’s do it we can do.

Brett Scott  11:31
And so as you said your slogan was, what was it again, do the

11:36
you the simple things savagely? Well, for uncommon results.

 

Brett Scott  11:40
I love that. And I think that’s something too I’ve seen in the industry just with, see a lot with personal trainers, or coaches that just don’t know how well the simple and the simple things in the fundamentals work. So well. Have, we have someone that is a golfer that’s just gotten into fitness, and it’s like, oh, well, let’s put them on a BOSU ball and throw a ball and have them catch the ball or, yeah.

12:10
So don’t put them on a BOSU ball. Please

 

Brett Scott  12:13
don’t ever put anyone on a BOSU ball.

 

12:16
Do core work on it. You don’t have to deflate them off, like, Stop standing on them.

Brett Scott  12:20
Yeah, stop standing on them. But as you said, there’s so many sexy type drills that trainers and coaches want to have people do. What is the problem with that? And what should really be the focus. So someone comes in brand new to training, they’ve been golfing for a while, you know, avid to advanced level golfer, where should we start with training.

12:47
So I mean, I’m going to take him through an email first. And hopefully, for everybody who’s listening to this podcast, I’m sure you’ve already talked about, hey, get some type of valuation, but for anybody who hasn’t, if you’re going to a new coach, and they’re not giving you even if it’s like, even if I if that coach labels it is Duff’s eval. As long as you’re doing some sorts of eval, that’s going to be an advantage. But in my gym, we’re going to do a TPI eval first. And then I basically bring them through what I call RPS one. So RPS, one is my beginner level program, so that I can hit these checkboxes before I look at the immediate advancement. And if you come in to me, you have your TPI exam, and you do well in RPS one I’m I can advance you faster than than I need to, I don’t have to follow a perfect checklist. Like if you come in, you’re a big strong dude, and you can deadlift with really good form. Why would I give you a band around your hip? And just, you know, have you do a rehab drill? Because, you know, the old template somewhere told me to do that, luckily, was, you know, you and I both know, you can coach for 1112 years and make executive decisions to advance someone faster than the older the old templates. I mean, just remember the college templates, like no, you have to follow this. I was like, No, you don’t. So you can advance people or a lot of times I regress people in certain areas, and I progress people in other areas, which is more common. A lot of people come in and say, Hey, Jeff, I need more mobility, or I need more flexibility. And I’m like, alright, that’s great. I take a look at him. And really, they’re just having trouble rotating because they’re unstable. So that’s the most common thing I see is people think they need a lot of flexibility and a lot of mobility. Generally, both of those things will increase when I increase their ability to be stable. So I’m going to obviously address all three, like if someone’s got terrible thoracic rotation, like they’re getting their Essex spine mobility for sure. I’m not going to skip it, but in most of those cases, they’ll probably have unstable legs because they Need to create some rotation somewhere so they can still play the game they love. So the eval will go from TPI screening, depending on their level of injury or profile, they’ll do a power output, and then we will get into RPS one, and then advanced them either fast or slow, depending on the results.

Brett Scott  15:21
And so, so what does that assessment actually look like? If you can, can give me some insight into that of what’s the TPS or my own? The TPI, I guess, and then replicate it around? Yeah. So

15:34
for some TBI, they, they made my job really easy recently. So they used to just have, and I know you remember this, so you’ll get this reference. But the FMS screens where you just fill out on a white piece of paper, a checklist and hand them to the person and be like, this is useful for you. And they’re like, Thank you throw it away. So. So that used to be what the TPI screen was, I had a piece of paper and I could refer back to it on my clipboard. And I could look and be like, Oh, that’s right. They were really bad. And Hip hinging, I’m like, Hey, have you been working on hip hinging out of the out of the gym? Go, what’s that. So now two guys made it a little bit easier. They have TPI Pro. So TPI Pro is an app, I input their results, they give a standardized exercise prescription, which I can add or take away from on my end, generally, I’m adding, and then they can take that home with them. So if I give them a TBI eval, and I give them the homework, and then I come back, and I asked him about it, and they haven’t done it, I can kind of judge what type of clientele I’m going to be working with. The people who are going to get results faster, the people who are doing their homework, you’re only with me one hour or two hours a week, I don’t care what certifications or badges or Golf Digest logos I have, you only work out one hour a week and sit at a chair or do other really bad patterns, it doesn’t matter how badass my resume is, or how cool my program is, exactly, there’s not gonna not gonna give you any results. So the TPI app is made my homeworks out of the house, so much easier. There is. So there’s other ways to like add more stuff on there. Eventually, I’ll figure that out. But right now, I’m doing so much in person coaching, that I got to work outside of the business a little bit more. And with the my son being born like Saturday, I’m hoping to do more of that.

 

Brett Scott  17:33
So the TPI screen is more of just like a basic movement screen where you’re also doing like a performance assessment after that.

 

17:41
Yeah, you can do TPI, one, which would basically be your movement screening, like how do you move, and then there’s a power tests as well is clients that I won’t do that right away without I’ll just get to work. And then we’ll power test later. But some of my college golfers and high level amateurs are on power testing.

 

Brett Scott  18:03
So what do you what do you do for power tester?

 

18:06
So there’s like, kneeling and seated med ball throws, there’s broad jumps, I like to do a 90 degree broad jump in both directions to see how big the gap is. There’s like a cable push down. But like instead of like your traditional, like, let’s say from a football side of the house where I came from, like your bench squat deadlift, like those aren’t, those aren’t important there. There is a cable pull, there’s like how much you can pull. There’s a squeeze. I can’t remember what that hand

 

Brett Scott  18:37
dynamite dynamometer.

 

18:38
Yeah, that thing. I don’t have one of those. But I would, I would like that and then there’s a vertical jump. We know that clubhead speed and vertical jump are the closest physical correlation. So like, for example, while he’s on the Live tour now, but we still we still know this guy, Dustin Johnson has a huge vertical jump and his clubhead speed is massive, you know, former basketball player. So those those correlations exist, like Bryson can jump very high. He’s got high clubhead speed, big athlete thrower, he’s got incredible rotation. So there’s, we know that the guys who can jump very well are going to have an easier time creating a higher clubhead speed. So vertical jump improvement is a large part of my program.

 

Brett Scott  19:23
And so it’s interesting because like we said, like we think about golf as a rotational sport, and it’s like the only thing we should train is, is rotational type movements are that’s what a lot of people think they should do to get ready for golf season. But you mentioned in another podcast that step ups, pull ups and carries were your favorite exercises. So we can we can say a carry depending on how you’re doing it is an anti rotation movement. That’s also you know, hitting the frontal plane but so why are they was the big ones and not, not the rotational movements? Well,

 

20:05
the rotational movements are important. And I will lead with those exercises more to like continue the conversation, right. And you, you kind of you get this because I’m leading right. So rotational exercises are definitely important to prove your clubhead speed and your ability to use your strength. However, a lot of people are always moving laterally in their sport, and they don’t spend enough time, you know, either resisting that or creating the ability behind that. So like, it’s easier for me to create tension in a, you know, straight up and down position, and then have it correlate easier to lateral drive. Whereas if I just consistently put a med ball in your hand and have you throw it, I’ll probably see improvements, but I won’t see improvements as much as if I get you to do a really strong strong deadlift, which puts you in a strong base position, which puts you stronger and address before you go to create all that violent speed. So I say that, those answers to kind of continue the conversation. But if you if you can do a pull up and you have strong lats, you’re more likely to put yourself in a good advantageous posture at address, which is going to make your job easier of creating that, you know, that rotational force easier. So I kind of look at it that way. Like how can I make your job easier without always just having to feel like I’m the super Golfy exercise guy, I’m probably not the most golf look alike exercise coach out there actually, I’ve definitely not. Whereas I know that there’s, there’s a little bit more that goes into it behind the scenes, versus what you just are gonna see on Instagram. I mean, I put out some of those sexy drills sometimes on Instagram, but I try to create a message on social media that you can copy and I’ll feel safe that you’re not just doing some crazy shit. Now that you saw on somebody did a 180 box jump with like a eight to 10 pound med ball in their hand. And he ate it at like his toe and like went head over heels. So that was bad. I saw that on Oh Dylan for Teles Instagram, which is hilarious because he’s a good dude. But like, Come on, man. Why are you posting that? It was funny.

 

Brett Scott  22:35
Yeah. And so you mentioned to the hex bar trap bar deadlift is your favorite type of deadlift variation. So why why trap bar over any other deadlift variance.

 

22:56
less likely for my golf athletes to get injured. When I go to deadlift, I will give my clients a wide grip barbell deadlift first, because it’s going to really exaggerate that, you know, that pinch between their shoulder blades, which is I’m going to keep coming back to that right. It’s gonna exaggerate that a little bit more before I go traditional or Sumo. I do like doing sumo deadlifts or or traditional deadlift from the floor, as long as my athletes able to kind of keep a little bit more of that neutral spine, I have a little bit less tolerance for high load with like a little bit, you know, use you were a powerlifter, there’s going to be a little bit of curve when they get to a heavier number. And it’s not necessarily a big deal. But I’m just going to spend a little bit more time with my golfer stressing, good posture and address posture, posture postures. I’m going to I’m going to say it till the cows come home.

 

Brett Scott  23:55
Yeah, so so that’s a good point you bring up and this is something I believe in to where not only as a strength coach, but as a PT, depending on what we’re doing, there are different bandwidths of constraint that I’m going to keep someone in because of maybe the sports so I’ve always found working with golfers myself that the individuals that do strength train, really know the fundamentals well of like maybe they got into golf after they got into bodybuilding, whatever the case may be, when they really know how to hinge. It makes my job so much easier to be able to get them back to golf. Because they’re just able to know where their shoulder position is going. How to set themselves over the ball, how to put their their body and balance over their feet, and then be able to produce rotation from there. When I have people that are golfers that I have a really hard time teaching the deadlift. I feel like there’s a lot of luck asked pieces probably in their swing. That’s, I’m not a golf pro, or anything like that. But something else that needs to be done to get them back to the fundamentals that would probably help their swing a lot. If we just knew the fundamentals of a hip hinge on a deadlift.

 

25:19
Yeah, the deadlift, the deadlift is like the king. So the king of the swing for me is address and deadlifts. Those are the most important thing. I’m going to start there. You know, the RPS one program is what I talked about after the after the test, but like the first thing that TPI is going to assess you on is like your ability to hip hinge. So it’s basically can you stand over like a mid iron, say, to seven iron in neutral spine, or if when that demand, which is the first thing you do when you stepped on a golf course, if you can’t do that, it’s it shouldn’t be where we start, you know, and they have like a rating system. So like you failed a hip hinge, your score is going to be sky high, you want it to be low, like in call. So if you fail the hip hinge like I can automatically tell you, it’s going to tell you like, your score is like you’re going to be like a 20 or 30 physical handicap, which I know you don’t know the handicap system here. But you don’t want to hear somebody saying I’m a 20 handicap golfer like they are not having a well, they might still be having a good time out there. But they’re not good.

 

Brett Scott  26:27
I actually learned a little bit about the handicap system last week, my clients, but still a bit confusing to me. So I’m still working through that. That Alpha lower

 

26:35
the number the better. Yeah, the lower the number, the better. So if you have somebody single digit or if you have somebody say they’re a plus. They’re really good. Yeah, I think my I mean, the better they are, though, like the kids that I have on Korn Ferry and the guy. The guys that are playing it, records, they don’t carry a handicap. So that’s also a thing. It’s like a badge of honor.

 

Brett Scott  27:00
Yeah, that’s a whole different conversation we’ll have to have

 

27:04
shooting in the numbers that I don’t understand. I can’t Yeah, like I show 65. I’m like, What’s that you can get them? Yeah.

 

Brett Scott  27:14
And so I think another piece is, and you mentioned this briefly is the mobility verse stability. For a golfer of everyone thinks in all parts of the world than anyone that’s lifting weights, there was a go, I need more mobility, where a lot of the times that might not be the case. So with, do you see this across the board with golfers, or I think some of this can be related to age, but like thoracic rotation is hugely important for golf. Now, we could be very mobile. But if we don’t have control of it, we will feel stiffness and move in a very stiff manner, because we don’t have the fundamental properties to just control our basic level fundamental rotation. So however, as we age, we typically see that a thoracic spine and the ribcage will get stiffer and stiffer. So as a more younger golfers just have a a, I don’t want to say stiff because it will confuse people but a, a spine, they don’t have the stability of where they just need more stability, and they fail stiff versus what happens as we get older, maybe our 40s or 50s. Do we see? Or do you see people that have actually like more of a true stiffness of the thoracic cage?

 

28:30
Yeah, so we know and I think the physical therapist who works in the gym, Tim remoto, just put out a post on our social media said something like figures, as you age somewhere in that 10 percentile range of loss of mobility. You I’ll refer to you guys, you know, my PTS of the of the world to know those numbers. But the, the thing I see the most often is that a younger golfer will not have a mobility need as much as an older golfer will. However, I have seen more younger golfers who are we know where the game is going. It’s not getting shorter, it’s getting longer. So I now see younger golfers who are more in pain, because they’re trying to create so much clubhead speed, but they don’t have the brakes required with that speed that they now have. So they are getting hurt and they’re back and they come to me and say hey coach, I need more flexibility or I need more lower back or mid back mobility because the older people who do need that mobility or flexibility or writing the papers that have blogs that they are reading or videos that they’re producing. So a 40 year old swing instructor who deals with older clientele is got a really good social media following on Instagram, I will have a kid who has clubhead speed that’s through the roof looks like a tall skinny giraffe and come to me and say, Coach, I need more mobility. Meanwhile, he could sit in a chair and just totally to the other side of the room. I’m like, No, you are deadlifting like a baby bird, you got no weight on that bar. You you can’t hinge properly. And if I asked you to do more than five pull ups, I might be lucky if you can. So that kid, and I’ve had that kid in the gym, that kid needs stability, big time. And then we add that and he’s like, coach, I’m actually hitting it further. Now. I’m like, Hey, cool. That’s cool. Does your backer be like, Oh, no, I forgot about that. Like, wow. Okay. I mean, I’m going to still give that kid like, generally, with the kids, I have to slow him down. Otherwise, we’ll just go through the program and, um, you know, a million miles an hour, so I’m gonna give them the rib rolls or 9090s their hips, their, you know, their cars and their stuff like that. More to like, slow him down, get a breather. Okay, let’s get back on that trap bar. But I mean, definitely, I have some youth golfers who got some. A lot of you know, you get some tech Tech’s neck with the kids. Yep. I have some bad for some reason. You know, I’ve seen in young moms where they’re, you know, holding a baby on one side, they’ve got one bed. But I’m also seeing a lot of young girls who are complaining about tightness in their left hip, but they stand around all day, just like, left hip bumped out. And so yeah, I see I see a good amount of that. But for my male golfers, my male youth golfers I see what I described, you know, high club head speed, low back stuff, and they need stability. Then on the other side of the coin with my older guys, they have been swaying a lot to create more speeds, they might have some hip issues, and their desk bound so that thoracic spine is is a factor. But generally for them, it’s more lack of disassociation between upper and lower half more than it is lack of thoracic spine mobility problem. It’s probably a little bit more, you know, upper shoulder and neck. And a lot of what I eat, oh, the guy who was terrible looking to the left, which would impact his downswing. And I figured it out because his screen, his major screen, his monitor was over here. Yep. So he was looking like this all day, you know, off to his right corner. And when he went left, he felt tightness. And so it was hard for him to fall through and swim. We made I made a move his monitors, he fought me on it. I don’t know why, but he fought me on moving his monitors, like rearranging a desk is not that hard. You rearrange his desk, he’s like, Hey, man, my neck pain went away. Do you? I’m shocked. Surprised you get a standing desk? No, it got to him, man. Yeah, one for two.

 

Brett Scott  33:16
ergonomics are huge. And that’s what the people come into it. And that’s a big thing we see all the time is, I had someone I had this conversation with yesterday. It’s like, oh, well, somebody’s gonna refer someone to music. But I don’t know if they’re gonna do their homework. It’s like, Well, did they even need homework? She’s like, What do you mean? I was like, well, if we’re doing this all day, and this hurts, like, I have to get rid of this first, before I start adding any fancy sexy exercise. And so what if it is just the desk setup, what if it is the way his chairs are as computer monitors positioned or how he’s hanging out at night, if we’re sitting in a chair all day, then we go slumped into a lazy boy every night. Like, maybe we just need to change that up a little bit. And so so there’s a lot a lot to be said there. I think the other thing too, like you said, and so for all you younger golfers out there that might be listening to this. You truly can feel stiffness in a thoracic spine, even though it’s mobile because you don’t have control. And easy thing to do would be go into a half kneeling position up against the wall, try to rotate yourself around, then go do a core exercise like a dead bug, a bird dog, or a bear crawl, and come back after about 10 to 20 repetitions and see how much smoother that rotation feels. If it feels better and moves easier and you can rotate further. It’s very likely you don’t have a true mobility issue where you need mobility that just reinforces that you need more stability. So just wanted to make note of that. Another thing too, and this might be a hard question to answer a loaded question, but is there a point when golfers should be lifting heavy is there are a a line we need to draw on the sand where we say we don’t need any less than x reps for a golfer. Because I think a lot of it and this might change through the lifespan to for someone where a younger golfer, maybe we want them in the offseason, do we want them doing heavy deadlifts? For like triples or anything like that? Yeah, so

 

35:21
I’ll answer that question in two ways. It depends on what level of golfer I’m dealing with. If it’s a guy working on winning the Club Championship, but he’s got a regular regular life, and he plays once or twice a week in practices two or three times. Great. Do I need him to lift heavy relative for him? Yes, absolutely. Now, if I have a golfer who’s trying to win the Big Ten’s, does he need to train heavier than he might want to in the offseason so that when it comes time, for Big Ten’s he can reach 113 114 mile an hour club head speed? Oh, yeah, he has to the regular club row golfer would benefit from it. But you know, my risk reward ratio will be a little bit on the safe side, I mean, 95 pounds for him could be heavy, right. And if he’s dead lifting, 95 to 150, we could be, you know, searing some serious benefits, he’s not going to reach the club head speed. That’s, you know, he’s not going to reach those 112 100, you know, crazy clubhead speed. But I got golfers who are trying to get to 113 120 club head speed. Oh, yeah, you better lifted, huge, you’re creating so much forest, my man you better lift.

 

Brett Scott  36:46
Now, there’s a special piece of that vote to where we can see certain adaptations get in the way of particular sports, right. So if we look at powerlifters, and bodybuilders, there’s being a physical therapist in this, the place I’m in is really cool. With the types of athletes I get to see because you see adaptation of sport in so many different ways. And one of them is, you know, we need weightlifting and powerlifting are similar ways of it’s, you know, a one rep max as heavy as you can go. However, like with powerlifting, squat bench and deadlift, we see this, you know, ultimately, we have a lot of stiffness that we adapt to, because we have to be almost overly stable to move as much weight as steadily as possible, and at the smallest range possible without any error. And so these guys don’t really have any relaxation to their muscle tone. Where we see with weightlifters there is much more of this ability to relax, like, if I have someone on the table and I’m working on a shoulder, I have to remind a powerlifter, or cue them somehow to relax multiple times throughout a session where a weightlifter just seems to be able to do it. Because there’s much more of a sense of there are certain times when you have to create a lot of tension, but also points where you need to be in a state of relaxation, and then create tension again, which I think is much of a parallel of golf of, we need to be able to have mobility. But we also need to create stability and force created at that point of impact, but then relax again. So can heavy lifting, get someone to trouble in golf, and what do we need to do to counteract that?

 

38:35
Yeah, I mean, you can definitely get yourself in trouble. If you go by a traditional bodybuilding program as a golfer. I would say it’s like if I had to choose like that, or nothing, I probably still choose something along those lines. I mean, there’s more literature out there to do it safer. But yeah, you can definitely lift your way into some trouble. I traditionally not going to give my clients anything. Under a maybe a three rep max, generally five, I don’t spend a lot of time Max testing my athletes doesn’t risk reward ratio gets a little wonky for me. But yeah, if you spent a ton of time lifting, you know, traditional barbell curls and frontal exercises and pulling your shoulders forward and doing a ton of bench. It’s your you’re gonna get in the way of your golf swing, but like someone’s saying, Hey, you’re gonna get too bulky for your swing to work. You’d have to like, really try hard to do that you’d have to really be training without intentions of advancing yourself in your sport. I don’t know about you, but at one point in time in the weight room, I was so obsessed with getting bigger and stronger and bigger and stronger. I almost lifted my way out of my position on the football field because I got so big and so strong that I couldn’t cover a slot receiver as a linebacker At no point in time, would you think that you’ve got too big and too strong as a linebacker to do your job. But if you lift with the intention of just getting big and strong without getting big, strong, fast and mobile, you might find your way to the bench and my coach, I’m only five foot 10. If he tells me if I get bigger, stronger, slower, I have to go play defensive end. Oh, hell no, no, thank you. So you can get yourself in trouble in any sport, with without lifting with intention of progressing your sport. If you’re if you’re a high school golfers like, Hey, Coach, I just want to get bigger arms, and I happen to play golf, but I’m not good enough to play. In college, can you give me a program that’ll you know, you know, build up some confidence, get some bigger shoulders and fill out my T shirt? I’m not gonna be like, No, you have to do better now. But alright, dude, here’s some chin ups. Let’s do a set of fan curls. Yeah, man, go get it fill out your T shirt.

 

40:59
I have fun. I mean, if somebody comes to me, and they’re like, Hey, I’m

 

41:03
on the Korn Ferry tour. And I want to go play on the PGA Tour. And I also really would like to prioritize. Bench Press man, Max. No.

 

Brett Scott  41:15
Yeah,

 

41:17
no, you won’t.

 

Brett Scott  41:18
And I think it comes down to this is it really comes down to the training adaptation of the way you’re training like you can train to get strong. But you also have to do other things in training to make sure you’re not getting slow. Like you can’t just train like a tugboat as a power lifter or a bodybuilder like because weight lifters and power lifters can have very similar strengths with with the squat and deadlift. But they move completely differently. And it’s because weightlifters are doing some they’re doing fast training. And we’re we’re training this like tension relaxation piece. And and we don’t lose our mobility because we’re moving to end range every day. Where Yeah, if you’re just doing heavy trap bar deadlifts every day. So I think the real piece there is. I think it’s to the weightlifters that are huge, right? They’re muscular objects that can look like bodybuilders. But then we look at them and they’re super mobile. And there’s no mobility limitations where you don’t see that nearly as much of the power lifter. But so I think it just goes to show that you can get bigger and there is a way to train to get bigger, stronger, and be faster without losing mobility. You just got to make sure we’re involving the speed the rotation the mobility piece of that, and we’re not losing that or sacrificing that for strength. Would you agree?

 

42:37
Yeah, there’s there’s two golfers that come to mind who have kind of flirted with the lines of bigger and faster and mobility wise so like Bryson D Shambo got really big, really strong still won the US Open but he’s kind of flirting with danger now hasn’t won recently. He’s not doing really good on longevity. Brooks kept good did the same thing got bigger got stronger one of us open once a majors but not doing great with longevity. Whereas like Matthew Fitzpatrick and Rory McIlroy still train there. Matthew Fitzpatrick put a high priority on putting on weight and clubhead speed won the US Open at the country club, and then Rory McIlroy just won the year long championship which is one the biggest paycheck good for you, too. Who doesn’t love Rory McIlroy and number three, anybody who lifts looks like Rory and has the longevity last the entire PGA Tour season and rack up the most points to get that largest paycheck just solidifies all the arguments that I get into which happened less and less now about training and golf and how it correlates and should I do this all year Should I try this and like the guys who win do so the guys who will ask you but anytime along Ballmer wins a PGA Tour event. I’m very happy. Anytime we’ve hit somebody who hits it far just talked about how they trained and they you know their coach, their strength coach puts out a post I’m like repost.

 

Brett Scott  44:11
Yeah, for sure. So, that covers a lot. Are there any other things to wrap up here that you want to mention for advice to golfers? Or to summarize,

 

44:24
don’t stop training. I would say Train, train throughout for sure. But don’t be afraid to train. You know, play around with your training, find out what’s working for you. And if there’s a feeling that you’re trying to create on the range. If there’s like a loading pattern, or I’m trying to feel more separation, find some ways or find a pro in your area that’ll help you create a feel in the weight room that feels easy to take over to the course. There’s a lot of times that I have clients who are trying to feel more lag, or more separation, and we try to create a drill that’ll create that feel that they then work on the range. And when they get it honed in on the range, it’s easier for them to take it to the course rather than try to make your golf swing look like the weight room trying to make your eye or sorry, flip that. Try to make the weight room help your golf swing rather than trying to make your golf swing, carry over into the weight room where you’re standing on a BOSU ball or which has no correlation or just doing a loaded chop pattern all the time. Your body doesn’t nothing that please just go for a long walk in the hallway with some heavyweights. Get your shoulders back set up in strong address. And, and you’ll you’ll love the results.

 

Brett Scott  45:47
Man, thanks for the advice. And thank you for coming on. This is awesome just to kind of sit and talk shop and learn some stuff about golf and training side and what we can do to look at golfers a little bit differently. And for golfers to understand how important training is to because I think it’s a headache we all have to have all the time with any type of athlete, especially the guys that love to take off for the summer and just drink beer and play golf with the boys. And then come to us three weeks before spring season starts. So

 

46:18
you kind of dream before you go on your spring trip, please.

 

Brett Scott  46:21
Yeah. And so where can people find you? Yeah, so

 

46:25
my gyms in Acton Massachusetts, looking to expand relatively soon, so we’ll stand by for that. But right now we’re inside the practice grounds in Acton, Massachusetts. Social media is everything is at coach Kevin Duffy on Instagram, Twitter, all that. And then the website is coach Kevin duffy.com.

 

Brett Scott  46:45
All right, great, man. Thanks for coming on and talking shop with me today. And for anyone that has any questions for me or for Kevin, if you can’t spell his name, which is pretty simple. Feel free to message us as well and we can forward you his information and we’ll put some his contacts in the show notes as well. So, Kevin, thanks for coming on. It’s great to have you here today.

 

47:08
No problem. Brett, thank

 

47:09
you for having me. Appreciate it.

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Dr. Brett Scott

Arkitect Fitness

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